Badges/Medals

[NiteHawk]

Lately I've been trying to get says on alot of things, mainly because if half the community wants Idea #1, and the other half wants Idea #2, I can often please both sides by making it configurable to work with both (Much like the modules pickup idea!). Plus, it is nice to get the community a bit active, even if it is a few posts. Anyways, here is another one.

Badges/Medals. My idea is that badges are meant to be achievements, basically. You can also get a similar achievement but a higher level, for example, Bronze Combat Medal, then Silver Combat Medal, etc. So, some examples of achieve these would be:

Bronze Combat Medal - 100 kills
Silver Combat Medal - 1000 kills
Gold Combat Medal - 5000 kills
Platinum Combat Medal - 20000 kills

Bronze Support Medal - 50 assisted kills
Silver Support Medal - 500 assisted kills
Gold Support Medal - 2500 assisted kills
Platinum Support Medal - 10000 assisted kills

Bronze Bomber Medal - 1000 total planet damage
Silver Bomber Medal - 10000 total planet damage
Gold Bomber Medal - 25000 total planet damage
Platinum Bomber Medal - 100000 total planet damage

You can even do a mix and match of things, or metal/badges that don't level up, and are a mix of things...

Star Assault Medal - 2500 kills, 2500 assisted kills, and 10000 total ship damage.
Bronze Star Medal - Get every bronze metal known.


It should give some incentives to doing other things other then flat out killing. The thing is, it needs to make sure to promote properly, and it cannot promote 'bad'/'incorrect' playing like some games do, for example, a friendly fire badge, or a self destruct badge would NOT be good. It needs to promote doing correct things for the game, that is. Now, I'm not sure if this will be for looks or not. What I mean is it COULD unlock certain skills or certain ships. Of course, I'm sure I can make medals customizable too, but to be on the nexus, you'd use the default medals.


So the questions for you to answer here:
1. What does everyone think on this whole idea?
2. Should it be used unlock ships/skills? Or just be something for looks/un?
3. Anything else to comment on?

[Conker-]

1. What does everyone think on this whole idea?
It's a great idea. But can you show of badges somewhere in-game?

2. Should it be used unlock ships/skills? Or just be something for looks/un?
It would be fun to have certain skills/ship(parts) unlocked yes.

3. Anything else to comment on?
Got a cookie?

[ChillFactor]

Maybe some weapons or upgrades can be unlocked with the medals. We can make some modules to unlock with medals and leave the normal ups and ships alone.

Another option is unlocking bigger ships to lower ranks who achieve the medals, for example: a rear admiral who unlocks the Gold Combat Medal gets a dreadnought, a commander who unlocks silver gets a battleship.

[NiteHawk]

Maybe some weapons or upgrades can be unlocked with the medals. We can make some modules to unlock with medals and leave the normal ups and ships alone.

Another option is unlocking bigger ships to lower ranks who achieve the medals, for example: a rear admiral who unlocks the Gold Combat Medal gets a dreadnought, a commander who unlocks silver gets a battleship.

I don't think the default ships should be locked. Though you can unlock variances of the ship lets say. We can actually 'name the ships' or give the ships more specific default names. For example, default is Cruiser, Assault Cruiser, Bomber Cruiser, or real names could be something like a Terran Dreadnought called the "Apocalypse M215" variances being the last 3 numbers. Ugh I don't really know.

But they would have a slight difference and be more geared to there roles. But I'm not 100% sure of this or unlocking stuff with medals to begin with. In the end medals might just be for show/fun/gloating. Not sure yet.

Because the game will have a lobby room in the future, it will most likely be viewable there with other profiles

[warfighter67]

Hmm, just my $0.02 here:

Maybe special items / ships for people who acquire such medals? They don't have to be a whole lot better combat wise. Hell, they could just have cooler graphics or something.

[ChillFactor]

Well, Sand and I will be naming ship classes soon, so maybe what you can get is a name ship class, as in Imperator-class Dreadnought or Aggresor-Class Cruiser.

[NiteHawk]

Hmm, just my $0.02 here:

Maybe special items / ships for people who acquire such medals? They don't have to be a whole lot better combat wise. Hell, they could just have cooler graphics or something.

Yeah possibly, but I don't want to be 'too' restricting. I would probably say no for weapons because of that reason. But we'll see! (I could possibly SEE this with unlocking special ships maybe?) If theres a good idea with weapons/etc can figure it out. And great idea about passive bonuses, probably can think up something (For example, having different colored thrusters!)..

Well, Sand and I will be naming ship classes soon, so maybe what you can get is a name ship class, as in Imperator-class Dreadnought or Aggresor-Class Cruiser.

Ahh right. This sounds good. For ships if we DO plan out making locked by medals ships, I would have to keep it balanced though. Always if giving something, have to remove/lessen another thing too, from the ship that is.

[AdmiralTigerclaw]

I would like to submit some non-permanent medals/awards.

As I've explained to you before, I have a major distaste for awards because it turns gameplay into a scavenger hunt.

I would like to submit the following.

Rewards that can be used up:
If you apply them to a bonus or unlock, they go away.  This would be for 'easy' rewards.  And the unlock would be a temporary bonus.  Like, once a game.  (Since it's easy to get the award, it's easy to get the bonus back.)


Rewards that can be rescinded if you fall below a threshhold.  This way, you don't just focus on the award, surpass the criteria, get your reward, and be done with it.  You have to MAINTAIN.

And rewards that require you to pass certain criteria combinations.

Like, the Platinum Combat Medal.  You can only be awarded that IF you're getting your 20,000 kills AND you're holding a good teamkill record.  (For example, you can only have so many teamkills per normal kills in a ratio)

Not just "Good job at all your kills!  Here's a medal."

Make sure the players are awarded for Good Sportsmanship, not just good playing.  

Make medals stand for real achievements.  When I look at someone's award list, I want to look at the list and go.  "Damn, he's good."  Not:  "Meh...  He's been playing a lot."



Oh, and awards that can't be won if you've won contradicting rewards.  There don't have to be many, but rewards that automatically prevent another reward from being achieved.  For example, the Platinum Combat Medal can't be awarded to someone who's got medals for being the most cunning, conniving player ever.  The Platinum Combat Medal is for honorable, well behaved, capable fighters.   Not twisted backstabbing pirates.

Or A master merchant's medal... You can't award that to a pirate, who steals his money.  So if you're a master pirate, you can't be a master merchant.

Things like that.  That way Medals are not simply a case of 'Gotta Catch Em All!'

That kind of gameplay is OLD.  


EDIT: A little something you can do with the Use Award For Bonus logic.

You have a high value award that unlocks something permenant.  In order to get THAT award, you must earn several different awards that can allow you to unlock something temporarily in exchange for giving them up.  If you want to unlock the BIG reward, you have to resist the urge to use the petty rewards.  It requires you to 'budget' your rewards and skills.

[Sandtrooper]

As I've explained to you before, I have a major distaste for awards because it turns gameplay into a scavenger hunt.

For some reason, I feel the same way,  plus with all the gimmicks that give you extra volume and crap, the whole idea just doesn't agree with me.

[AdmiralTigerclaw]

Play a pub-server of 2142?

That's where I finally just got fed up with Awards.  Even I'm guilty of what it causes.  You just get focused on 'Doing that One Thing' you need to do to get your Explosives Expert Badge, or Headshot award, or core destroyer award...  That you're effectively playing like a dofus.

And then you multiply this by about 32 or so... and take away about ten people who are actually trying to play, and you have the level of disorganized, off kilter gameplay that leaves game a complete mess.


So please, for the love of all that is holy, for the millionth time.  I don't CARE how much it gives people incentive...  The Rewards/Medals/Patches/Whatever system needs serious thought, or to be left out entirely.  Unless the rewards are designed to operate on complex criteria where you can't just 'Do that One Thing' to recieve what you want, it's going to result in idiocy of the highest degree.  Ladder-climbing, pat on the shoulder 'good boy spike!' rewards and ranking systems are just shallow, worthless incentives that get boring.  I feel like a Mongrel just thinking about it.

If we build an awards system, let's put some SERIOUS thought into making it a REAL showing of player skills, and a part of how the player ends up playing.

I don't know how to emphasize this any more clearly without resorting to harsh language.

I would swear like Samuel Jackson in Pulp Fiction.  I would call you up and scream at you over the phone if I knew the number.  I would drag you into my room, tie you to a chair, and play 2142 and SHOW you what happens as I try and go for the Demolitions badge on a titan map if I thought I could get my point across any clearer.  If only to get you to LISTEN to what I'm saying.

This CANNOT be one of those things you just slap down with a placid smile and expect it to work.  It has been done.  I have seen what it does.  If you do not learn from the problems I have explained to you, it WILL result in the same, EXACT, MISTAKE.

I need to step out now...

[NiteHawk]

I get what you mean, and will defiantly be thinking about interesting medals, including a good amount that can be 'gained' through hard work/good skills, rather then long playing. I'm not too sure if there going to unlock things or not, if it can be kept balanced, then sure. I don't want people flying around in super ships just because they got a few medals/badges. Otherwise its going to be MW2 mass kill when you start doing good you basicily get rewards and you get insane weapons that kill everything. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1xUacuuC2ew&feature=popular <-- Like this. (Brent showed me it anyways, though the commentary is hilarious. But the gameplay is insanely unfair as you get these crazy bonuses.)

If 'skills' will get in, they'll be toggable on/off in mods, and they'll only be minor boosts. Should give minor boosts, but not to the point where it makes it unfair/impossible.

[Mars]

Well i hardly ever agree with Tiger about anything, but i do this one to the extent that Nite has posted about,  Metals if at all should be for missions if anything, but (thats if anything), i have some time to think about it and Tiger is right, i will cause a leapfrog effect of players trying to achieve things that are in different directions so the metals must be much more generalized.   The best i can think of is part of what Weylin wanted to some degree,  example have metals without rewards, but say,

a metal based on each rank  
a metal based on number of missions awarded,  Example after 5000, kills no friendly kills
a badge based on clan membership
a metal based on clean play
a metal based on (again missions)  ie, say a Monster (evil evil alien alien meaner than a junk yard dog, a single ship that is much harder to kill than a bot and would require teamwork ect,) was put in the game, that shows up ever few weeks when no one expects it triggered by time, or number of players in a server, and who killed that and saved their race from it.  having it attack anyone.  

(Ive long thought sf needed a outside monster to come in once in a while just for spice)
that would keep even clans and races joined as SF to overcome some huge event, thereby ensuring that even foes in clans would have to work together to beat.  ect.  This would also encourage players who hate each other to at least keep the game smoother as having to work with each other.  just as helping sf has done for the same reason.

but Nite said balance,  so to do that why not anti metals aswell,  in otherwords a anti-
metal for players who kill their own race way way to much,
a anti metal for someone that never takes systems

but in respect to tigers post, even those things should be so limited if at all that to earn one you would have to prove over 100,000 points you never took a planet,  or never killed a human ect.

I personally think the game can live without them all together,  but the monster unity concept to me has always been something ive wanted the admins to think about seriously,  we can have 5 or so different ones so theres a treat of the month or every other mo.  As long even as that is in deep moderation just enough to keep rivals from total hatred as you cannot continue the volume of hate (that even im really good at) up in this game and make it still GAME drama and not PERSONAL drama)

2.0 should start clean and not have the forum bickering drama that has (if anyone has noticed) gone down alot since everyone is working to help sf now.   said twice.

but it could be i just wanted to draw up some alien forces for that too. LOL...

but to me not a bad idea cause in every single show, ((and a simple time gen trigger for a random pick of some monster event should not be hard to write since i can even do that in qbasic))

all the old treks which this game is very loosely based on,  time to time there is some encounter that enemies have to work together to overcome,
i think of other movies like (Enemy mine) , and a few of the Enterprise missions, just to see how handy that comes in to make plots even for ongoing games that much better to keep down the potty mouth that comes with personal conflicts in games.

 (wars and contest do have good effects to build up drama but it too often becomes personal and that teamwork is the best answer to end all of that as its doing now.. )

WIKI WORK
WIKI FILES
FLEET AREA COMMAND POST
SHIP BUILDING
FB FAN PAGES
ADS
EXTRA PROGRAM FEATURES
NEW SOUNDS  ect.

when a common interest is introduced things change fast.

point made.

Kill that damm Gorn,  hes just a sub culture worse than the dregs, and hes eating earth and phobos, help!  


Oh and ive got some KICK ass monsters drawn up just in case.