Ranks and equipment limitations

[Weylin]

If we are going to have ranking (And I hope it's a server specific thing)
Might it be possible to have a means of limiting certain equipment based on rank or current kill/death ratio?

Many of you are probably against anything resembling "levels" getting progressively stronger equipment and weapons, but it can work the other way too if supported, such as providing a handicap for new players that goes away once a certain level/rank/ratio is reached.

[NiteHawk]

If we are going to have ranking (And I hope it's a server specific thing)
Might it be possible to have a means of limiting certain equipment based on rank or current kill/death ratio?

Many of you are probably against anything resembling "levels" getting progressively stronger equipment and weapons, but it can work the other way too if supported, such as providing a handicap for new players that goes away once a certain level/rank/ratio is reached.

Yeah it's possible. I am not sure the initial game will have limitations yet though, but it wouldn't be too hard to add for mods

[DarkSun]

If we are going to have ranking (And I hope it's a server specific thing)
Might it be possible to have a means of limiting certain equipment based on rank or current kill/death ratio?

Many of you are probably against anything resembling "levels" getting progressively stronger equipment and weapons, but it can work the other way too if supported, such as providing a handicap for new players that goes away once a certain level/rank/ratio is reached.

I'm not sure that would be a good idea though. We already have enough issues with vets playing on new accounts in order to catch other vets off guard. Adding a handicap for new accounts would only exacerbate the problem.

[Weylin]

Hmm, on another game I play, you're allowed different callsigns, but they all have the same displayed rank. (ie, you could have 100 characters but they all show the same kill/death)
If someone tries to bypass the system by making another account behind a proxy or something, they usually get banned once it's found out.

It's a similar problem there at Allegiance, too, and people get in a huff when a rank(0) kicks their asses, or does something at all intelligent 

[DarkSun]

Hmm, on another game I play, you're allowed different callsigns, but they all have the same displayed rank. (ie, you could have 100 characters but they all show the same kill/death)
If someone tries to bypass the system by making another account behind a proxy or something, they usually get banned once it's found out.

Yeah, I suppose we'd have to do something like that in order to guard against abuse if we were to handicap new accounts.

[Weylin]

Allegiance only lets you use 3 'hiders' though. It's a small community so it usually doesn't take long to find out who someone is...
And they can often check who it is just by looking at which scores change at the end of a game.

[AdmiralTigerclaw]

Equipment limitations with rank SEEMS like a good idea.  But experience tells us that does not do what is intended.

The intent is to make players earn the more powerful equipment as a reward for good play.

Experience teaches us that it exacerbates the gap between newbies and veterans.

In this experience, it is shown that as the veteran increases in skill and time in play, his ability to trounce newbies already increases exponentially.  Giving him, and only him access to better and better pieces of equipment merely makes him more efficient.

Think of it like this.

Veteran:  Skill 100
Newbie:  Skill 1.

Difference: 99

Veteran, skill 101 + 10 bonus for good equipment unlock.

Newbie, Skill 2.

Difference: 108

Difference jump: 9

The values are arbitrary, but the point is clear.  It's nice, but it's unfair.

Any system that involves unlocking things that increase your performance should not be unlocked because they are 'better'.  But because they are 'complicated'.

Take for example.  Flying an airplane.

Before you can fly a plane, much like a car, you have to get a license.  That means you have to learn how to fly.  And normally, when you do this, you learn in a little single engine prop aircraft.  Not a 747.

Then once you're good and certified there.  You go up to the next biggest plane.  And the next biggest plane.  And so on.

By the time you're even allowed to TOUCH a 747, you've got flying down so well it's second nature.  Of course, with an arcade level of game management, you can't ramp up the complication so easily.

But the core point is that you should not reward the player with unlucks unless the unlocks are taylored in such a way as to reward the Learning Curve.  That is to say: "I didn't wait until six months into your game to give you this particle cannon because it's more powerful.  I waited until six months in because any sooner and the moment you picked it up you would have blown your head off."

The rewards aren't trophies.  They're certifications, measures of trust in your ability.  I get to fly a 747 because I won't smear 200 passengers and myself into the runway because I forgot to set flaps on descent and stalled early.  You get to fly that Cessna Skyhawk because if I put you in the cockpit of a 747, you're going to descend too fast and throw the throttle all the way forward, only to discover way too late that it takes fifteen seconds for turbofan engines to spool all the way up to full power.  Oops.

So unless a system can be developed to make that kind of unlock system work right, I vote against rank-unlocked equipment.

[NiteHawk]

Well like I said, it could be a feature for people to use, but it won't be in the main game, since I mostly agree with you

[Weylin]

These things don't need to be 'upgrades' where equipment gets simply better, because I agree, it only makes the gap larger, and I've complained about this on other games that seem to think grinds are a good thing.

What I had in mind was having higher ranked users authorized to use more difficult/dangerous weapons.
Think about it, requiring a rank of Captain to buy a GrenadeIII. It's a messy weapon, it's prone to killing friendly ships and yourself, and needs to be handled carefully.

What I have in mind are weapons that aren't general combat, but more prone to catastrophic failure if used improperly.
Less powerful and more manageable versions of these could be available at no rank.



But yeah, not part of the main game, just to have it there for an option.

[Havik]

how bout havin the debris worth some creds?

[Weylin]

how bout havin the debris worth some creds?

With a modifier so pirates can get more out of it!

[NiteHawk]

Yeah I was thinking of something like this.

My issue is right now the whole credits thing is a mess. It's easily exploitable, and it always feels downright useless. I was thinking of changing this so credits weren't there anymore, but that kinda makes the game less simple and more basic/lame, I would think. The resources way (Where planets would have resources) Might be an option, but it would need to be planned correctly. It would make freighters useful as well.

The basic idea of resources would be that planets would generate there own resources, maybe a few planets generate more, could be one 'set' resource name, or several different types. If different types would be in to create modules, needs to be done properly, again. But you could grab debris and 'returned to a planet', and those debris would be turned into resources. If there enemy gear, it could be a 'blueprint' to a new item as well. (Or you'd only have X amount of enemy items to use, can discuss this another time.)

I've been wanting to have a 'real cargo' bay where you can pick up items/store items rather then just vanishing, regardless if we use credits or resources. I've also wanted to make modules that are different and unique to each race, so actually getting blueprints to enemy items is actually WORTHWHILE. More or less Drengin being a hit/run type, weaker shields, stronger guns, better cloaking systems. Arceans being more heavy on shields and tech, but less on unique type weapons.. And Terrans, always being the average middle, perhaps more proficient in missiles and energy.

It will all be toggable though, as of course SF should always be a customization type game.

[Harpor]

how bout havin the debris worth some creds?

With a modifier so pirates can get more out of it!

Arrh matey Surrender your ship parts or prepare to be boarded.
By my bead! we have got a Q3 "ensign-smee swab the hull! we cant be raiding without a shiney ship.