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Author Topic: Truly EPIC RTS...  (Read 864 times)
AdmiralTigerclaw
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« on: July 13, 2009, 07:05:14 PM »

I wanted to propose something and see if we couldn't put a bit of a placemat down for planning here, but I've always wanted to try the truely total scale Real Time Strategy game.


The basic Idea is something like Supreme Commander meets Homeworld.


Let me explain a basic game environment premise.


The game map, is an entire GALAXY.
The galaxy consists of open 3D space and systems.
Systems contain planets, moons and asteroids. (And all that rot.)
Planets are treat as 'ground' maps.

The basis for Total Campaign mode, is to start a campaign from your very first unit, and play a single, full scale RTS game all the way to the defeat of your opponent across the battlefield of an ENTIRE galaxy.


You will be able to build everything from your individual troopers, to gigantic starships, and wage combat on all fronts. 

Let me give an example of how such a full scale galactic battle game would progress.

You start in a basic ground location with your first constructor/command unit.  Seems like any other RTS.   You build your factories, locate and extract resources, all that fun stuff. 
The only thing you'll note at first is the seeming lack of opponent attacks.
Truth is, they're doing the same thing, on the other side of the galaxy.

Progressing along, you build up your infrastructure to the point where you start building spacecraft and stations, and soon beging expanding into your system.  This is where the scale starts to play.   You have your zoom level where you can view your tactical map, and then you zoom back to a strategic map like in Supreme Commander... then you take it further.  Zoom out to look around the orbital area of the planet itself. 
And then you can pull all the way out to system view, then starmap, and finally, the Galactic Monitor map.

As you expand your resource base, you acquire new planets, build new facilities on them, and harvest resources by the billions of tons.  You build a fleet and begin exploring the galaxy...

And finally, you run into the enemy.   And the real battle begins.  It starts as a space battle between your ships, and escalates into a massive interstellar war.  You have to win, and you have to smash the enemy to do so.

Your factories go into overdrive and you pump out ships, launch attacks on shipyards, hammer planets, engage in raging fleet battles while on the ground below you simultaniously manage the ground assault trying to cripple your opponent.  Truely a combined arms battle on all fronts.



Now, the trouble I know will be the biggest issue is not the power of such a system required, but the amount of micromanaging a player would have to do.  To assist a player playing this galactic scale war is a new type of automating for RTSs that allows the player to view the action where it is most critical, and allow everything else to keep things going without constant attention.

The first example, is the split fight scenario.

The player has launched an attack on a planet, but is simultaniously under assault at one of his shipyards.
They player's assault requires his undue attention in order to go well, but at the same time, the inatentiveness to the defense action could result in crippling losses.

One of the kind of automations is the automatic procedure.  If we're to say that the shipyard has a carrier operating on defense, the carrier would automaticly deploy the required fighters and bombers to logically deal with the threat... Along side this, it would take specific actions depending on a few parameters, such as 'defend to the death' or 'draw away' or 'hold back' or 'normal'. 

The other kind of automations is the Logistics management system.

Let's say you build your first Strike Cruiser.  A strike cruiser is essentially, a portable invasion in ship form.  The StrkC holds dropships, which in turn hold ground assault vehicles and APCs, the APCs in turn, hold a group of soldiers.  Imagine preparing a task force for a full scale attack.  Hours of +1 clicks building various sub-groups of units to stuff into the next teir of sub-units just to load one SrtkC.

What Logistics automation would do, would be to create a menu of customizable (and savable) templates so that you can quickly build up a task force without spending two hours clicking +1s.   Want that strike cruiser filled up?  You could select the cruiser and order it to fill to a template, which would automatically order nearby factories to pump out the required units, AND the units needed to ferry them to the cruiser, AND do it for you.  Did that StrkC get destroyed?  Select to build one and apply a template during construction, and your factories will work to have the units to fill it ready for you by the time it is built.

The automated Logistics can also provide upkeep for you.  If your carrier from the shipyard attack.  Perhaps it lost half its fighter wing in the battle.  If it's selected to maintain an aerospace wing, it'll automaticly place an order for new craft when one is destroyed.  Removing the 'Well where'd X go?' from long battles where you can only deal with so many things at once.



Next up, is the issue of RTS 'Superweapons.'  I envision a game where you use all your constructed ships and weapons, as you need them, rather than waiting for a countdown timer.

Need that orbital strike to clear an entrenched force?   Just have space superiority and pick your target.

BUT, to prevent the concept of 'Most Number of Biggest Guns + RAMPAGE = WIN!' from dominating, there are two methods to controlling the spam.

The first, is the introduction of new, dynamic win conditions.  Winning is no longer about simply blasting the enemy until there's nothing left.  (In a full scale galactic conflict, this could take DAYS of time playing.)  Victory conditions such as DECAPITATION (take out all the Enemy's key command and control units.), Conquest (Occupying and holding a spacific location for a designated time, or a NUMBER of said locations, and you win.), and Exhaustion.  (Inflict casulties upon the enemy in a manner in which they lose something like 100 units for every unit they kill.  Effectly turning zergrush tactics into a dangerous meat grinder where their forces get tired of fighting and simply give up if you keep up with it against superior forces.)

The second, is the introduction of Commander Approval Rating.  You are the commander of your armed forces, but you are NOT the Sovereign Diety of the Universe.  There will be Civilians on planets mixed among friendly and enemy forces, and each time the civilians get harmed, your approval rating will suffer accordingly.  If your approval rating takes too much of a beating, you will be removed from command by your superiors, and you will lose.  This will drive players to actually think about what kind of attack they're planning to use.   It is WISE to use an orbital strike on a city where the enemy has planted their communications center?  Or should you hit it with bombers, or attack it from the ground?  Which will cause the least collatteral and thus, the least damage to your approval?  Simultaniously, while hiding in a city can provide protection, what would the results on your approval be if the enemy engaged and you got into a destructive surface firefight in the middle of the city?


This will keep the use of Bigger is Better in check, as rampaging around with planet killer weapons actually won't win you this war so much as get you kicked out of command almost immediately.  (There will be things you can do to help bolster your approval, giving you leeway to be more violent, but that won't allow you to run around blowing up planets willy nilly.)



These are just some of the ideas I have in mind.

Thoughts?
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« Reply #1 on: July 15, 2009, 01:50:56 AM »

http://www.freeallegiance.org <- RTS units flown by individual players, and led by a designated commander.

http://www.beyondprotocol.com/ <- basically everything you mentioned above, give or take a few things.
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AdmiralTigerclaw
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« Reply #2 on: July 15, 2009, 03:37:18 AM »

Those are MMOs though.  I'm thinking something where you're IT, maybe against another player only.
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« Reply #3 on: July 15, 2009, 07:57:57 PM »

On beyond protocol you could decide to just go to war with one particular player, everyone else just neutral Tongue

Allegiance is usually a two team thing, usually from 10 to 20 players on each side
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AdmiralTigerclaw
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« Reply #4 on: July 15, 2009, 09:44:12 PM »

Neither of which is what I have in mind.

I want to see something like a cross between Sup. Com., and Homeworld.  Not these MMORTS things... 
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« Reply #5 on: July 16, 2009, 09:44:55 PM »

Speaking of homeworld, I want to make a mod for that...

I DID make a homeworld mod, but it had some undesirable issues Tongue

The main issue was preventing someone from putting an ION CANNON on there SCOUT
Drove me absolutely nuts when people logged on and found out some new way to mount a capital ship weapon on there little ship.


Hopefully if anything becomes of the new SF engine I'll make an effort to remake it, get better sprites, and possibly have weapons that properly emulate those on homeworld.

Loved that game... XD



I talking Homeworld1 though, The Tiidan, Kushan, Kedeshi, and Turanic raiders would likely be the factions I'll add
Tiidan and Kushan were the two main races, one with defensive tech, the other with more offensive type ships.
Kedeshi where mostly fighter based, the swarmers, very powerful fighters at that, but poor fuel.
The Turanic raiders just... sucked... but all of there ships are durable and have a missile launching corvette Tongue
« Last Edit: July 16, 2009, 09:50:07 PM by Weylin » Report to moderator   Logged
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« Reply #6 on: July 19, 2009, 03:08:12 PM »

*SNIPPED*

These are just some of the ideas I have in mind.

Thoughts?

Sounds a lot like another game that our "friends" at Stardock have published, it goes by the name "Sins of a Solar Empire"
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