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Author Topic: Sf2.0?  (Read 551 times)
Relentless
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« on: October 11, 2010, 01:40:19 AM »

Any idea when it may or may not be expected to be released/finished? Even an estimate that could possibly be inaccurate? Just curious. I've been busy getting better from having two ingrown toenails pulled. Hopefully back to work for me by after Christmas Smiley After a year, or a year and a half of being unable to work due to medical reasons.
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« Reply #1 on: October 11, 2010, 10:58:36 PM »

if the force is with our master coders, the end of this year.
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« Reply #2 on: October 12, 2010, 01:53:02 AM »

I would think something stable with a nexus in a quarter. But it wont' contain the all the stuff I want to add. I want to revamp the way the ships feel/move a bit, so there more smooth like, but still giving that SF feel. Also wanted to add scripting, so we can script events, better AI, etc, outside of the game without having to recompile, probably won't have stuff like that done either.

Mainly a working game with working stats/nexus/no lag/few features/etc will be the first thing. It will have some good features (like saving ships) but it won't have the major impacts to the game engine by this quarter, for sure. But we'll have something at least playable with a working website/fleet manager, is what I'm hoping.

I don't consider 1.4 to be playable at all. It lags way to much network wise, and the FPS is disgusting. I can't even look at 1.4 anymore without feeling like my eyes are skipping a few frames at a time Tongue

Sorry about the delay though, it's been pretty hell and beyond for Brent and I. A hell of a amount of coding is changed, more then expected since more things jump out at us when we fix one or two things.

« Last Edit: October 12, 2010, 02:01:13 AM by NiteHawk » Report to moderator   Logged

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« Reply #3 on: October 12, 2010, 10:49:03 AM »

The biggest limiter to us getting the game finished has been real life. We both have a lot of real life obligations, especially work ones, so how much time we have to work on sf is often out of our control. The second limeter has been other games, such as minecraft, cod6, and hao reach. We're gamers too, and we often need to just play.

Anyway, were hoping the game itself can be declared done by end of year with the new nexus shortly behind it. We'll see. New fallout comes out next week, and I'm about to board a cruise ship in california. He he.
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« Reply #4 on: October 12, 2010, 06:21:20 PM »

I understand we all have other real life or other online obligations or need for rest and relaxation. Like I said I was simply interested in a rough estimate. I also figured it was a legitimate discussion as I have found others somewhat vague as to this ultimate question. Discussions that involved questioning whether Mars attempting to promote SF before 2.0 came out; which is a big dilemma if everyone knows there is something better where a completely new nexus will be installed and everyone will have to re-work themselves back up there; then why play when you can wait? Which meant that Mars' proposed efforts may or may not have been in vain.

I too would like to promote SF when it's in better shape. Especially as Night mentioned the FPS / LAG issue which is something we both agree on ; how disgusting it is. I would love to see so many different things in SF too but that's not to say you guys don't already know what's more important in the long haul Smiley

Well have to head off to the clinic, I changed my own dressings and talked to a health adviser while doing it who highly recommenced I get one of the toes checked out as it had seemed possibly infected. I'd like to sign off and thank you both for honestly discussing a rough/vague time frame ; at least something we can hope for Smiley Keep up the good work. I know you guys can tackle that lag/fps problem! I believe in you! (reference from peter pan; where the kids say they believe in peter pan so he can stand up to Captain Hook (no I don't mean you KD Wink lol). TTFN
« Last Edit: October 12, 2010, 06:22:59 PM by Relentless » Report to moderator   Logged

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« Reply #5 on: October 13, 2010, 02:34:41 AM »

I understand we all have other real life or other online obligations or need for rest and relaxation. Like I said I was simply interested in a rough estimate. I also figured it was a legitimate discussion as I have found others somewhat vague as to this ultimate question. Discussions that involved questioning whether Mars attempting to promote SF before 2.0 came out; which is a big dilemma if everyone knows there is something better where a completely new nexus will be installed and everyone will have to re-work themselves back up there; then why play when you can wait? Which meant that Mars' proposed efforts may or may not have been in vain.

We never stated we were shunning, but we aren't going to spend time promoting it ourselves. In a market sense, you don't want to advertise something that someone can't get in a install package. I don't want to release a install package because there will be so many updates it would just be a hassle. That's why at the moment you can only get it through SVN only. In the future when I hope to have a lobby, it can auto update there. I'll explain details on this later though.. You can feel free to promote, but most people get the 1.4 version since its easier, and they get driven away from it. Normally, people don't stay and they'll vanish into the void because of it. I also think it would be best to advertise a working game when everyone can do it at the same time, aka I will most likely pay for some ads around. MPOGD is a good start, not too expensive, etc.

Another reason I don't want to advertise 2.0 yet is because or the first week we may need to adjust the prestige value, which might go higher, but normally will go lower. Some prestige gain might be to high, aka capping planets for example. It needs to be pretty balanced. I don't want the public to undergo that, as I, myself know how much it sucks to lose things. We also don't have a nexus for 2.0, which really kills 2.0 online play for much. I COULD see when we have a good/stable version, but advertising now is an issue because we simply don't!

I too would like to promote SF when it's in better shape. Especially as Night mentioned the FPS / LAG issue which is something we both agree on ; how disgusting it is. I would love to see so many different things in SF too but that's not to say you guys don't already know what's more important in the long haul Smiley

Yeah, Brent overhauled the network coding. He did a awesome job. I think there is some minor sync issues left (Like cloaking etc), but it should be 100% better. People still need to test and relay it to Brent though, not much of that has been going on. But for the most case, the old SF coding would even out of sync in a LAN game, which was crazy. Brent is using RAKNET now, and it's amazing what it can do. I'm glad hes damn here because networking and me don't get along. He is a guru at coding though Wink

The FPS problem, I'm pretty near done but working on stability. I think I've gotten it from 40-60 FPS on my machine, to something crazy like 1200-1600FPS. The issue is it jumps like a school girl. Though you won't notice it, someone with a less strong computer or tons more robots will feel it. Mainly theres some issues with the collision detection that needs to be solved. There's a few things that can be done too the rest of the coding too that I'm going to be beating when I get to that point again. But for now it can be released like this. Most people won't realize it in a regular game. But if your FPS drops past 64 then you'll be getting sync issues since you can't keep up. But we'll get this all worked out.

Mobious is planning out the Nexus stuff too, so hopefully we can get a base going. We want to get the nexus going and a I wanted to see about a 'game lobby' idea I've been planning out too. Soon as we have a Nexus though, we should be in good standings, and Mobious is going to be probably focusing on that I believe, so should be awesome. Just need to figure out how we are coding this/handling this. It's probably going to be one of the only games that handles everything in PHP (Including chat). I have some ideas on the executable side of it anyways... It should all work out in a nice little package having three active coders. Alot better!

I could see starting minor/free advertising WHEN we get a Nexus up, but not yet! I am glad you are on board and I hope you do stay, the game needs more upbeat people, eh? Wink
« Last Edit: October 13, 2010, 02:38:49 AM by NiteHawk » Report to moderator   Logged

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« Reply #6 on: October 13, 2010, 11:33:42 AM »

I'm jumping on that nexus coding / planning / setup currently. Time is always an issue but such is life. Who knows given a few extra hours a week I may put some other fun things in the pipeline...

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« Reply #7 on: October 13, 2010, 06:15:04 PM »

I tried downloading through the SVN actually and it all went well until some DLL file didn't seem to be there. Something to do with Direct X 9 when I have the most recent Direct X [I also run Windows 7 ultimate] (naturally each Direct X version is still there fundamentally) but it seems like Direct X has always had such issues when you update it.

Another reason I don't want to advertise 2.0 yet is because or the first week we may need to adjust the prestige value, which might go higher, but normally will go lower. Some prestige gain might be to high, aka capping planets for example. It needs to be pretty balanced. I don't want the public to undergo that, as I, myself know how much it sucks to lose things. We also don't have a nexus for 2.0, which really kills 2.0 online play for much. I COULD see when we have a good/stable version, but advertising now is an issue because we simply don't!
That's understandable. I went to a game I won't mention and the guy has literally updated and screwed his player base for over 10 years without so much as some sort of test-server and that's really all he needs as he never really fundamentally changes the game at all just server settings that somehow mess up the entire game. The guy releases his game updates via "Patches" too which coincidentally require a patch that requires a patch that requires a cat to eat the mouse that ate the malt that... yeah.


Yeah, Brent overhauled the network coding. He did a awesome job. I think there is some minor sync issues left (Like cloaking etc), but it should be 100% better. People still need to test and relay it to Brent though, not much of that has been going on. But for the most case, the old SF coding would even out of sync in a LAN game, which was crazy. Brent is using RAKNET now, and it's amazing what it can do. I'm glad hes damn here because networking and me don't get along. He is a guru at coding though Wink

The FPS problem, I'm pretty near done but working on stability. I think I've gotten it from 40-60 FPS on my machine, to something crazy like 1200-1600FPS. The issue is it jumps like a school girl. Though you won't notice it, someone with a less strong computer or tons more robots will feel it. Mainly theres some issues with the collision detection that needs to be solved. There's a few things that can be done too the rest of the coding too that I'm going to be beating when I get to that point again. But for now it can be released like this. Most people won't realize it in a regular game. But if your FPS drops past 64 then you'll be getting sync issues since you can't keep up. But we'll get this all worked out.
Lag is the devil.

Mobious is planning out the Nexus stuff too, so hopefully we can get a base going. We want to get the nexus going and a I wanted to see about a 'game lobby' idea I've been planning out too. Soon as we have a Nexus though, we should be in good standings, and Mobious is going to be probably focusing on that I believe, so should be awesome. Just need to figure out how we are coding this/handling this. It's probably going to be one of the only games that handles everything in PHP (Including chat). I have some ideas on the executable side of it anyways... It should all work out in a nice little package having three active coders. Alot better!
Hopefully the future Nexus features folks not loosing their work for future over-hauls/updates (this will be important to keep the new/future player base who are more likely to be into reliability). I expect this would be easier than it is currently as after you adjust the score/mathematical part of that particular area you probably won't have to revisit it too soon.Meaning people keeping their work will be easier for future updates or nexus-moves/transfers.

I could see starting minor/free advertising WHEN we get a Nexus up, but not yet! I am glad you are on board and I hope you do stay, the game needs more upbeat people, eh? Wink
Like an editorial commentator, I'd think it'd be better once a solid 2.0 comes out + nexus. It's been a few years since this project website went up (of which the first year was probably spent getting permission to work on it/figuring out what to do/searching out support). Which means that the best thing to happen to you Night + Mobius + Brent would be for this to get out and done with. A project that never lingers in the back of your mind as incomplete. So it is my hope that discussing this offers something to the table.

I'm not a real game-programmer, or a superb graphic artist or even a decent music artist like ATC. I have in the past reported bugs; of which I'm sure about 99% of them are reported already now. I just hope that in some way I've been of some help in my own way. And yes I * AM * CANADIAN * (/sighs I seriously used to believe those beer commercials were our Canadian Anthem when I was like six or something).
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« Reply #8 on: October 14, 2010, 03:19:21 AM »

Haha, all good Smiley

But yeah, we are going to have a '2 week trial' where the nexus scores will get modified, you won't lose you're score, but it might be modified when I change the prestige value. I don't think it will be a severe impact though.. In return to testing you pretty much start off 'ahead of everyone', since I won't reset the prestige value. Some values might go higher too. Depends on how fast/slow there moving. Need to have a fine balance. After this I highly doubt the value would be tweaked again.

It has been about a year since we started on 2.0 for the most case. Alot of the coding is majorly different now, but still needs alot more work. I want to work on the fun stuff soon, eh Wink

Well I won't be doing patch after patch. I'm thinking of a auto updater that checks before entering the game, anything that is not up to par (CRC checks handle this in most games) will be updated before playing. This is to pretty much insure everyone is up to date.
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« Reply #9 on: October 15, 2010, 03:18:06 PM »

I tried downloading through the SVN actually and it all went well until some DLL file didn't seem to be there. Something to do with Direct X 9 when I have the most recent Direct X [I also run Windows 7 ultimate] (naturally each Direct X version is still there fundamentally) but it seems like Direct X has always had such issues when you update it.

Oh also this isn't true. Windows 7 and Vista does not have up to date DirectX 9 files. I will be attaching the directx installation to the SF installation, when the time comes to solve this issue. But they still update DX9 redistribution files:

http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyID=2da43d38-db71-4c1b-bc6a-9b6652cd92a3

Grab that if you want Smiley It's good to have anyways. In the future I'll support DX10/11, but that won't be at release. I wanted to start with DX9, which everyone can use. DX10 is only vista/win7, and not everyone has made the change even still Smiley Huge sorry it's a pain right now to get up and going, mainly since it needs a nice installer package with everything included.
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« Reply #10 on: October 17, 2010, 10:32:50 PM »

speaking of 2.0 i would like to report the sf fan page is now 61 members!  im keeping the page active and going and keeping some chat up new players are dripping in and this could get very good in time.

fan page located at http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=132797510095215#!/group.php?gid=132797510095215

if you are a member of sf please join the fan page as it is not a fleet page and does nothing but help the game more members that join bring more attention to the game as a whole.  fb rec groups over 100 players with a extra activity, so join up and see if we can break 100. 
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